[00:01:41] BB: Okay, okay.

[00:01:42] JS: I probably receive a couple hundred pitches from PR folks every day.

[00:01:47] BB: Oh, you're a busy freelancer. That's for sure.

[00:01:50] JS: Yes. My inbox is very busy, but I do my best to keep up with it, and I try and respond to folks who send me very personalized pitches because I know how much work goes into that. But it would be impossible to reply to everybody.

[00:02:04] BB: Yes. I assume you do not, therefore, because it's crazy.

[00:02:08] JS: Correct. I wish I could.

[00:02:10] BB: Yes, yes. How do you manage then all of those pitches?

[00:02:15] JS: Well, I skim everything I get because a lot of my story ideas come from pitches from PR people. Yes. I greatly value them, but I can only give a quick skim to everything. Then things that seem interesting get filed away in certain folders in my inbox for later review or for potentially going back into later when I have a relevant story, or an editor is looking for something on that topic. Then others just get left in the inbox. I don't delete anything for the most part.

[00:02:49] BB: Okay. You're one of the, “Hold them till forever. Maybe it becomes useful.”

[00:02:53] JS: Yes. I have probably 600,000 emails like that.

[00:02:58] BB: Wow. Are you serious? I think that's a record on here. I've heard the 50,000- plus. But the 600,000, wow.

[00:03:07] JS: Yes. Google’s making good money off of me.

[00:04:53] BB: Correct. They renamed it. They put a new lipstick on it.

[00:04:58] JS: Yes. I used it for a very long time. For many years, it was a very helpful resource at connecting me with the right people for my stories. Then it got very popular, and it seemed like anybody could get on the platform. I write a lot about health and wellness, and that requires a lot of input from doctors and legitimate healthcare professionals. I would put out a call for pitches on HARO, and I would get really weird responses from lawn care professionals and SEO specialists and those –

[00:05:32] BB: Oh, no.

[00:05:33] JS: Saying like, “Oh, I know I'm not a doctor but –”

[00:05:36] BB: But –

[00:05:37] JS: But –

[00:05:37] BB: “I took one class in college, so I think I have an opinion on allergies or –”

[00:05:41] JS: Yes. “But I got AI to write something for me, so here's your response.” It became –

[00:05:45] BB: Oh, no.

The Ins and Outs of Freelancing 

[00:05:48] JS: I said I need a better way. I started tapping PR people I knew, and I put out a Google form saying, “Hey, I'm going to start emailing my calls for sources for stories. Here’s the type of people I generally look for. If you work with those folks, please sign up.” I created an email list. I ran that out of my Gmail for a long time. Then about a little bit more than a year ago, I moved everything to Substack.

[00:06:16] BB: Since you're moved to Substack, how's it been?

[00:09:25] BB: Exactly. Okay. Actually, now, I have not asked this of a freelancer, but I'm going to ask it for you. How many is too many follow-ups to an editor?

[00:09:36] JS: Well, I recent – oh, to an editor.

[00:09:39] BB: Yes. I'm saying like you trying to pitch your story.

Follow Up Etiquette

[00:09:42] JS: It depends. If it's a good pitch, if I've never worked with the editor before, I think two follow-ups after the initial pitch is fine, as long as I'm not sending them in succession. If it's a very timely story that is going to expire in a week, I might follow up a couple of times that week. Unless it's super timely and needs to be written right now, then I'm not going to follow up twice in one week.

I'll give it a week, 10 days, two weeks. It depends on how busy I imagine them to be. Yes. That’s how it will be with a new to me editor. With an editor I've worked with before and have a good relationship with, I will be more diligent with follow-ups because I know that they care about our relationship.

[00:10:31] BB: Yes. You have a relationship. Yes. You’re like, “Hey. Hey, hey. It’s me.”

[00:10:35] JS: If they haven't gotten back to me, they probably want to and just need a reminder.

[00:10:39] BB: Yes. Okay. You already have that relationship established, so it kind of makes sense for you to kind of push them a little bit more.

[00:10:45] JS: Yes, exactly.

[00:10:46] BB: Speaking of relationships, how does a publicist make one with you, if at all?

[00:10:53] JS: I think, first, sign up for my newsletter, honestly.

[00:10:56] BB: Let's think about what you're going to say for that one.

What Building a Relationship and Engaging with Joni Looks Like

[00:16:08] JS: It's a little all over the place. I guess I tend to be most attentive to it in the morning. I’m not a morning person, and email is pretty easy on my brain. That's a good time for me to start looking at that and getting through it, whereas in the afternoon I tend to go into writing mode and try to ignore my inbox. To me, it doesn't really matter when the pitch is sent because I just kind of read everything in the order it comes into my inbox.

[00:16:36] BB: Oh, that's good to know. Okay. It’s first-in, first-out type of look. [00:16:40] JS: More or less, yes.

[00:16:42] BB: Yes. Okay. For you, Joni, in regard to the story approval process, could you illuminate that a little bit? For example, yes, you have maybe an editor who comes to you whom you've worked with and they say, “Hey, Joni. We need this sleep thing. Here's the deadline. Here's how many words. Here's the topic.” Okay, fine. But is there more a situation where you go, “Hey, editor bestie. I want to do this type of story. What do you think?” How’s the pitching process for you look on the flip side?

[00:17:12] JS: Yes. Sometimes, it definitely works like that. For editors that I have a good relationship with, I can be a little bit less precise with my pitching and give a more general idea or something.

[00:17:22] BB: Yes. Throw it out there. See what happens.

[00:17:24] BB: Yes, yes, yes. That's the way we can start collaborating and finding the perfect angle. With new to me editors, I basically need to go in with the angle that I'm thinking about. It might change after we talk, but I need to give them something with teeth, so they can really consider what this might look like for their publication.

[00:17:43] BB: If you know them more, then you can be looser. But then for ones you don't, more precise.

[00:17:49] JS: Exactly, yes. Then from there, it might take days, or it might take weeks or months. It really depends. Last week, I sent a pitch to a new to me editor, and she got back to me the next day and said she wants the story. We negotiated a fee and a deadline. Now, I'm reviewing the contract today, and I'll be starting the work this week.