Jabari Young, senior writer and editor at Forbes, specializing in the editorial lead of ForbesBLK.
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Nathan Burrow is the senior deals editor at Wirecutter, the product reviews and recommendations department of The New York Times.
During the episode, Nathan discusses how Wirecutter identifies and recommends the best products on the market, his goal to always serve his readers in his coverage, ways to craft a winning subject line, and more.
Follow Nathan on LinkedIn and X/Twitter.
Click below to listen to the full conversation and read below for highlights from the interview:
Dos and Donts of Pitching Products
[00:03:38] BB: Okay. That's a great overview. I know people want to know as publicists here, “Oh, well. Nathan, how do I get my thing reviewed from my client? Can I just mail it to you?”
Can you break down that process? As some of us know, but I want to have this explained here, not every journalist, many of them, cannot just randomly accept things sent to them in the mail, although publicists do damn try their hardest. What's the process like there because we need to know?
[00:04:07] NB: The first thing you should know is that we are not allowed to accept those products. I get those emails all the time.
Unfortunately, it's not something that I really pursue. It would be – I know that when we pursue testing of mattresses or anything else at Wirecutter, Wirecutter puts the bill for those products.
We purchase the products. We test the products. We do not keep the products that we do a form of long-term testing on.
Many of them, we ultimately relinquish the products at the end of either short or long-term testing, whether we're donating those or whatever.
It's really about objectivity. We don't want to accept things to create the perception of some sort of quid pro quo. That’s just not something that we do.
[00:04:52] BB: Speaking of that, do you then even – it’s probably not advertised but even mention like, “Oh, hey. You know what? In the spring, we're going to be looking at lawn mowers.
So, hey, in November, send us your –” Is there any understanding of what you will be reviewing? Or is it anyone's best guess as a publicist?
[00:05:14] NB: One of the things that we do in advance of refreshing guide contents at Wirecutter is we will often drop an update box on the specific piece of guide content saying that we're going to reassess USB microphones, or we're going to reassess lawn equipment in the months to come.
That can be an indicator to folks that it might be time to start pitching but think seasonality. There are really times when folks are looking to refresh bedding. There are really times when folks are looking to refresh lawn and garden. You take that, and you work backwards a couple months to when the guide writers are likely thinking about them.
[00:05:49] BB: Got you. Then from a pitch, and now this is going to lead us to your inbox. Actually, let's just go right to your inbox. How is it in there?
[00:05:58] NB: Busy. It's busy. I get a lot of pitches. I get a lot of emails. In truth, the vast majority of them I do not follow up on.
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Heads Up PR Pros: Approach Nathan With Service in Mind
[00:09:37] BB: Is there another pitch you've gotten lately that you're like, “Ooh, that was good.”?
[00:09:41] NB: I almost opened the –
[00:09:43] BB: Almost. Oh, no.
[00:09:45] NB: Well, I went back and I looked through some pitches that I got. The pitch had, let's see, study in brackets to open. 82% of Americans are fed up with bad customer service.
If this had been specifically retailer-based, I probably would have opened it because part of my beat’s responsibility at Wirecutter is when we surface a sale from a given retailer, especially if it's on an individual product, we have to ensure for our readers that the retailer and customer service practices are legit and viable.
Getting a sense of who might have some questionable practices is always of interest to me it's just that it was more general than it was specific to any given retailer. As a result, I was curious about it, but I didn't bite right off the bat.
[00:10:31] BB: Is there a pitch, and you don't have to tell us where it came from, but that you're like, “Oh, no. This really bugs me.”?
[00:10:38] NB: Any pitch that promises me something, just simply because I can't take it, is one that is like, “Yes, I've seen this before. Don't offer to send me things.”
But also just things that are totally out of scope for not just my beat but for Wirecutter at large, like when somebody hasn't done their homework. I got a pitch that said, “Cars.com's 2024 American-Made Index.” Wirecutter doesn't presently have –
[00:11:02] BB: You don’t do cars.
[00:11:03] NB: An automotive beat.
[00:11:05] BB: Exactly. Yes. [inaudible 00:11:06] and lifestyle and health and baby. There are so many other things. But, yes, no.
[00:11:12] NB: Yes. I think that to an extent, I don't expect any publicist to dig deep into a Wirecutter cannon and find all the stories that are three years old. But my hope would be that they, generally speaking, acquaint themselves with what we do and let that steer how they pitch us.
[00:11:29] BB: By the way, it is extensive. For instance, under style, women's underwear, period underwear, boxer briefs, thermal underwear. I mean, this is like detailed reviews in specific.
In other words, it's very easy to see what are the categories Wirecutter is covering and what they are not, so that's awesome. I do like that.
Okay, Nathan. Is there anything for publicists to know about how to make a relationship with you? Or you’re like, “You know what? I don't need – I don't want to know any of these people.” That’s totally fine, too.
[00:12:04] NB: I think approaching me with service in mind. I mean, that is really Wirecutter’s MO is reader service first. If they can angle a pitch that way and approach me via email, that's really the best way to reach me.
I've had folks reach out to me via Twitter DM. I've had folks reach out to me directly on LinkedIn. I find that I am somebody who pays attention to my email, and I think most of the editors at Wirecutter are. It’s a good way to reach us.
Rapid Fire Pitching Preferences
[00:12:45] BB: Okay. I have a little short list, Nathan, called our rapid-fire questions that I love your take on if you're ready. Are you ready?
[00:13:16] NB: I am ready.
[00:13:17] BB: Okay. Then we'll get to some other things, so okay. Video or phone interview? But, first of all, do you ever do interviews?
[00:13:23] NB: I do, yes. I've done things for some major TV stuff. I've been lucky to do some GMA and stuff along those lines.
[00:13:32] BB: Yes, some media. Does media, yes.
[00:13:35] NB: Video is a great way to communicate, but I'm fine with phone if that is somebody's preferred medium. I've done radio. I’ve done video interviews.
It is something where I'm very flexible, but video is always great. I find that it really engages people.
[00:13:51] BB: Okay, okay. Bullet points or paragraphs in a pitch, and why is that?
[00:13:56] NB: Bullets just so I can quickly absorb the information. That would be my preference.
[00:14:01] BB: Got you. I'm assuming then that's a short pitch compared to a long pitch.
[00:14:04] NB: A short pitch, three bullets or sentences or less, preferably.
[00:14:07] BB: Okay. Images attached or Dropbox zip file?
[00:14:11] NB: I really prefer a image attached, something I can see the preview of. We have to be careful because we just get a lot of stuff, and we get our – we were constantly trained up on avoiding fishing attempts and stuff like that. Things that you have to download are – I mean, that's a little sketchy.
[00:14:29] BB: Yes. That's a no. Okay. Also, this is my preference, too, I don't want to click to another link that then I have to put in an email to get to the thing and then find out that the link is expired.
Now, I got to talk to the PR person and say, “Oh, by the way.” It’s like, “Oh, my. I don't want to click on things.”
[00:14:43] NB: Yes, 100%. I don't want to have to overcome any sort of technological hurdle.
[00:14:48] BB: Yes, yes. No. Okay, attached. Attach them. Great. Email or Twitter DM? Now, we already talked about this. Email, email, email. Okay, great. How about follow-ups? One or multiple?
[00:14:59] NB: One.
[00:15:00] BB: One and done.
[00:15:00] NB: I would say that two is too many. I've already looked at it.
[00:15:03] BB: Okay. We touched a little bit on subject lines, but direct or creative subject lines?
[00:15:10] NB: Direct. Get straight to the meat of the matter for me. I'm a numbers guy, and so – I mean, that comes with the territory of my work. If you can hit me with data, I'm compelled.
[00:15:21] BB: Okay. I like this use of compelled. That's my word of the year, by the way, so this is – I'm feeling it, Nathan. Okay. What about press releases or media kits?
[00:15:29] NB: Depends on the pitch but press releases can grab me if they're the right thing. I will occasionally get messages from publicists that are sending along press releases from major merchants, retailers, what have you.
Those can get my attention because that's very part and parcel with what I do, which is I need to know when the next Target sale is. I need to know if they have a new event around their circle program that they didn't have last year, et cetera, et cetera.
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