[00:04:56] BB: Oh, let's get into that for a second because there we've had many topics on here and we've had many discussions about, you know, on the record, off the record, etc. I imagine for you specifically There's a lot of people who are like, you cannot be mentioned in my damn name because they're telling you some juicy tea that should not be existing right in the, in the world. How do you define and delineate this is on the record versus not well.

[00:05:21] TM: So there's a couple of things. Number one, a lot of the people I talk to come with their own PR professionals, they're being babysat by you, by their compliance teams, by all of that.

[00:05:37] TM: And so with those kinds of interviews, it's like from the very beginning it's very clear what's the conversations on the record, off the record, in between, if they want to go off the record. So that's very well set out. And oftentimes most people will have their PR representatives on the call, etc. And that's one kind of interview. But I think the real source building outside happens, a lot of it happens outside of that where you know, you have sources where you're not, you don't even know who their PR is. And it's a very down low relationship you have with them where it's completely independent and probably nothing they ever tell you will be on the record. It's just all, they're just giving you information and it's kind of off the official channel kind of a source. And so there's value in both of those kinds of relationships.

[00:06:23] TM: Obviously you need to quote people, you need to have people who will contribute to your stories. But it's also important to have the sources you're just going to talk to just get information from and for no other reason.

[00:06:37] BB: So I like that distinction where you're saying like, oh yes, they are coming with the compliance officers, the IR people, the PR people. Yes, yes. In this world, I imagine no one's going off the cuff like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, so that leads me then to relationship building.

[00:06:56] TM: Yeah.

[00:06:57] BB: Because you are always going to see the PR people like you're going to. This is regulatory compliance, federal stuff. How do you like to make relationships with publicists, if at all? Maybe you're like, I don't want to see him on a call and forget it.

[00:07:10] TM: No, I actually happen to think, at least for the industries that I cover, it is one of the most important things that you kind of have to do because a lot, a lot of times you know the people that you want to interview, whether it's a CEO or a CIO or Whatever, they are not going to reply to you. So you have to go through their priority. And it pays off to have a good relationship with the pr because they control who gets to talk to that CEO, who gets to talk to that cio. And it is like a reciprocal relationship where I want to be upfront with the PR as well, that these are the topics I want to cover. You know, it's not a gotcha, it's not something seedy. You know, if there is something going on that may be not so favorable towards the company, I'd be like, hey, I am going to ask about this, but that's my job as a journalist, that you are going to ask about all those things. So it is very important, I think, to have good relationships with the PR people. And not to mention when it comes for embargoes or when it comes for the time for exclusives, that's really what's going to pay off as well.

[00:08:10] TM: Because there's 100% been times where you get an exclusive because, you know, you have a good relationship with the PR and that kind of blends with, you know, what you're covering, fitting what their company does.

[00:08:23] BB: Good to know.